Over the last few years we have seen UFC, Pride and others bring out the most advanced fighters the world has ever seen. They are able to punch, kick, grapple, ground fight and submit. Also the level of fitness they attain for each fight makes them some of most well conditioned athletes alive. Does this mean that they are also great street fighters? Firstly let me point out that when i say MMA fighter for this topic i am referring to MMA sport fighters who train under rules and regulations. And this is just what i mean. RULES AND REGULATIONS. In a street fight there is no ref, so no one will stop you gouging eyes and pulling inside of cheeks (fish hooking) if there are weapons around (sticks, bottles, walls to be thrown into) you wont get disqualified by using them to your advantage, and most importantly IN TODAY'S DAY AND AGE YOU DON'T FIGHT JUST ONE PERSON. This is the most important point. If your rolling around on the floor looking for a submission or clinched up trying to deliver knees and elbows his/her friend will probably creep behind you and do all sorts of damage. You have to be able to finish one guy off quickly so you can either worry about the next or run like hell! Now don't get me wrong, i love watching and training MMA and a lot of techniques they use are very practical and useful, but you must realise that street fighting is a completely different thing. Theres loads of good books that give more information on this and the best techniques to use and avoid in a street fight so i wont bore you with them. All I'm saying is sometimes when training, think what would be the best strategy if your were out on the streets with no RULES!!!
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9 comments:
Wow, I couldn't disagree more.
First,if I can dominate you in a Judo match, and a Karate match, then my chances once the rules are removed are even greater for me to beat you.
First off an MMA fighter gets hit, deals with adrenaline, is in fighting confrontations regularly.
The average person is not. They don't gouge eyes, kick knees, or hit groins, they don't do ANYTHING at the speed or intensity of a MMA fighter, much less have to do it under adrenaline.
I have seen a ton of dudes who look great in the dojo, get into confrontations and freeze up. I have seen fighters who look great in the practice ring, wilt when it is game time.
Thinking that you are going to some how shine through in a confrontation situation (which you are rarely in) and be better at it than someone WHO DOES IT FOR A LIVING, is ridiculous.
That is like thinking you are going to be a better driver than a NASCAR driver on a road track because they have to drive around on a round track.
I promise you are not going to be more ruthless than a MMA fighter. You aren't going to surpise him with an eye gouge, or a groin kick in a real fight. They will take you at range, get in close, thumb you in the while while striking, knock you out, or just flat out embarass you.
I would equate your argument to thinking that the average joe who plays street ball thinking he will beat an NBA player one on one because of lack of rules.
Or thinking that you can deal with Professional NFL player in a backyard pick up game "because there are no refs out here".
You remove the rules from professional fighters, not only will they be prepared, but they are in a better position to use eye gouges, groin kicks etc, because they have trained to be accurate under pressure, and prove themselves to be, and becuase they will control the position, tempo, and speed of a fight.
Given the fact that they are professional athletes, they are going to be stronger, faster, more agile, and thus much more capable of pulling off any given technique.
You know this whole argument was given at the beginning of MMA, when Karateka and strikers talked about how they trained for real, while Judo, BJJ, and wrestlers trained for sport.
Needless to say there were a ton of humiliated Karateka out there.
For 40 years there No Rules Vale Tudo matches in Brasil, dominated by BJJ players. There are tons of countless videos of the internet of Karateka, Kung Fu, Aikido, Dim Mak practitioners getting annihilated by MMA fighters.
Yet these pointless arguements persist.
Put it this way>
There are a TON of rules and regulations in the PGA. Which types of clubs, balls, shafts and such that be used.
Many golfers on your local course are using oversized drivers, forgiving caved irons, balls designed to do more, etc.
Now your argument would be that if given every single tool available (oversized drivers, forgiving club heads, specialized balls, specialized putters, range finders, etc)
That a person could beat someone like Tiger Woods. Hell let's not say that, let's say any professional golfer on the tour. Any of the 135 or so of them.
So with a few tools, that supposedly will make one more effective, would you say they would be able to beat a professional golfer? Even if the pro golfer is forced to use entirely regulation stuff.
Now, let's say that the golfer is also allowed to use all those same tools.
Who do you think could hit an oversized driver farther? The average club level golfer, or a professional golfer?
Not only would the pro golfer smoke you using his regulation equipment (no need for that other stuff) but he would further demolish you with the non regulation stuff.
Fighting is no different than any other physical activity.
My point is even with you not using any rules, and a professional MMA fighter using his limited rule set he would still demolish you. (You being any non pro fighter, because you are essentially a hobbyist)
Now if you remove the ruleset from the professional fighter, he is in better position to take advantage of those other techniques he is limited from. He is not hampered by it, because he has to intentionally stop himself from breaking those rules. (How many times do you see them getting warned about hitting the back of the head, and low blows?) By being a position where he can fully let go, you would be in a world of hurt.
Trust me, I would much rather get kicked in the balls from Strip mall Sensei joe, then from Mirko Cro Cop.
Just my opinion.
-Judomofo Y!Answers.
JUDOMOFO.
You are right, as long as your fighting one one in the street, and the person your fighting does not have a knife or gun under his jacket. But the bottomline is nearly all street figts now a days are one against many, and lots of people carry weapons.
If your attacked by two people and your on your own, theres no point hitting one of them more than twice at the most, as his partner will come up behind you and do damadge. What my article says is that sometimes, training with realistic street scenarios in mind is needed, as well as competition style fighting.
I don't think Mark was saying that an average joe would be able to take on an skilled MMA fighter just because he learned a few "dirty" tricks.
Mark does make a strong point about multiple attackers though. You have to actively train in dealing with multiple attackers to effectively learn how to deal with the heightened combat stress effects (tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, etc.) that result. You can read more about that in my blog post, Defending Against Multiple Attackers.
Also, many MMA fighters rely heavily on ground grappling, if they were to use these tactics when there are multiple attackers, they are quite prone while dealing with a single person. In the meantime, that person's buddies can kick at will. Consider this statistic: The most common cause of death in a street fight is a kick to the head. You can read more about the dangers of ground grappling in street defense in my blog post, Why Grappling is More Effective in the Ring than in Reality.
Sun Tzu said something along the lines of "Train like you fight. Fight Like You train." I think this is particularly apt in this context.
Exactly right Lori. In the ring, a well rounded MMA fighter should have no trouble against a boxer, judo fighter, Thai boxer, karate fighter or whatever else becuase having an all round game will give him the tools needed to work on his opponents weak points, but in the street where you are most likely to face more than one person, its a whole different way of fighting.
Mark,
I'm glad you point this out. I have been involved with many brawls that include beer bottles and being kicked when your down. I stay off the ground when in a street fight and keep a wall to my back to prevent a sneak attack.
Lots of MMA fighters have had weapons training and even come from traditional martial art backgrounds where eye pokes and groin strikes were taught.
What would stop an MMA fighter from carrying a knife/gun with them? Would you agree that someone trained to fight and had the intent to use the knife/gun in a fight would be just as dangerous? Maybe more so?
If someone cannot handle one attacker, what makes them think they can handle several? The odds are already against the victim but if they don't have the fighting ability to deal with 1 person they are going to be even less effective against 2 or more.
I agree that to be effective against multiple attackers you have to train it but it should be done when you are comfortable with 1 opponent.
Lori, I agree with you that one fights like they train. Sun Tzu also said war is expensive and should be won by other means if possible. I interpret this as legal, medical and dental bills, time off work to heal, time in prison if convicted of something. All these things will cost me in some way so maybe it's best just to not fight.
With the above point in mind, the only thing that is left is planned attacks where a victim will never be ready. For example, anyone stabbed while they are asleep during a home invasion surely could not have defended themselves. Obviously there are ways to protect yourself during a home invasion such as alarm systems but my point is that if your not ready, not aware (which is the basis for the plan) of/for a planned attack the odds are being stacked against you no matter your training.
JodoMoFo has got a point ,but when involved in a street confrontation you don't know who the other guy is or what he knows. Since MMA fighters are trained to be agressive, they don't have the fear to keep themselves in check.Thats good if your going to fight someone thats not a trained fighter or fights like you do. When MMA first came out and they were beating everybody, you can bet that other trained fighters were in their dojo or garage learning and working on ways to defeat
them. I purchased a small self defense course that claimed they could show you how to defeat anyone in 5 secs. One technique
was to palm a small 2in blade knife that is legal everywhere ,even in california, that is easliy concealed . Anyway if your attacker comes in high, you cover like a boxer
both hands up as soon as the other person is in range you stick that little knife in his neck or slash across his belly. If he comes in low you step back with one foot and stick that 2in balde in his face, eye, side of the head whatever is presented they tell you to do this repeatedly untill your out of danger.
You use the other persons agression against them . I've been in martial arts for 23 yrs
and guess what I just purchased a 2 in knife.
Doesn't the information above send shivers down your spine ?
It did mine . So my point is you could come up against someone that is crazy enough to use that information and get yourself killed.
That is the reailty of the street.
Peace !!
I know a professional mma fighter who was jumped on the streets by 11 men and he sent them all to the hospital.
Theres no way a street fighter could beat an mma fighter.
I can see both sides of the argument here.
I believe that MMA training should be the foundation skill, the thing that we spend the most time training in.
The other training activity to spend time with is doing some RBSD courses, at least one a year. The good ones have realistic scenarios which are designed to instil fear and apprehension amongst other things. This will be the reminder to periodically do some more 'street' type training to assist in transitioning the already competent MMA skills and just tweak it a bit for the street.
Spend some time doing one against many and weapons attacks and combinations of those. For example, during one v two training, one of the attackers has a concealed knife (training one of course) and at any time he draws it and starts stabbing it into the guys guts.
There are many possibilities but essentially, i believe MMA should be the foundation skill. It gives you the ability to apply techniques on a 100% resisting opponent. It just needs to be tweaked or refreshed every now and then.
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